Thursday, May 12, 2005


Went to an apostles and prophets conference in church yesterday and while it's still fresh in my head, i better blog in down. I'll try to put it as accurate as possible to what was being delivered yesterday (but i was trying hard to follow). My dear readers and friends, please do drop your comments as i would really highly appreciate your views =)
We are living in the year of 5765: 4th Year in 7 Year Cycle Of War (uhmmm..whatever that means)

In a nutshell, in Hebrew language, numbers are also letters and they mean something and Hebrew letters were originally pcitures. Here are the significance of the hebrew year 5765:
7 year War Season
5700 - "May it be the year of ... "
Samekh - originated from a picture of a ring which means to turn, to go round, to surround, to emcompass or enclose ; repeating cycle
Hei - originated from a picture that looks like a window lattice and waves of sound blew in which means wind, sound, breath, spirit, revealation
- to murmur, whisper, meditate, moan, growl, utterance, speech
- loud violent praise! loud thunder or shouting

And then it was said that this would be a year where mistakes can be made right. It is a year of breakthrough and because it is a leap year in the hebrew calendar, there will be more time for us to make things right (this is when my ??? begin to rise)

God is stirring the seas of this region to bring about his power and in preparing the churches of this country for a change in 6 months' time if Malaysia were to response. How you set your course this year will determine your future 3 years later.
"Let me show you what it looks like from heaven"
and a picture of a cross above the head of the lion of judah blowing fire to the earth is projected on the big screen.
The message - Year to circle, surround and plunder the enemy's camp
Then the night ended with a few people blowing the LOTR-alike horns on stage accompanied by the music team which then leads the congregation into praise and worship which was very viabrant because sound is very very very important this year!
Frankly, i didn't catch the 'fire' yesterday. I felt as if i'm conforming to the majority in church itself...sad. I just kept praying in my heart, God teach me as i just want to understand wisdom from You alone in stuff like this.

I don't doubt God and His power but I'm more cautious on the choice of words used in the message and the kind of ideas being communicated. Yes, it was loud and motivational and perhaps feel good for many but i didn't catch any of those...and i can't help but think that the prophesies given were generic or could be just me?


Comrade Kenny said...

It'll be great to see that this is the year to liberate the world from Satan's grasp, and free everyone.

It think it'll help you to understand more if you have a read over in this site:

Generic prophecies aren't uncommon. Reason they seem generic is because they're about things that we can barely fathom. Sometimes God is vague when He speaks.

Think back to Abraham. God prophesied to him that his descendents will match the number of stars in the sky. I'd say that's pretty generic.

christians are fools! said...

Kenny, I don't understand how u can say that God telling Abe about his numerous descendants can be GENERIC. yes, if God stops at NUMEROUS, then it probably is rather vague...those folks after all have many wives to guarantee the production of at least some dozens.

But if you READ your bible, you will notice that the prophecy is to make him "a great nation" (Gen12:2),"father of many nations"(17:4),"nations and kings coming out of him" (17:6), his descendants "as the dust of the earth" (13:16), "the number of stars in heaven" (15:5), "as stars of heaven and as the sand on the seashore"(22:17). Who can imagine having such great magnitude of number and strength and honour accorded to his heirs? Just imagine your great-great-great grandfather. Do you think he’ll ever imagine such thing happening to him and his line? I doubt Joseph’s great grandfather will. And NOTE that a good portion of these prophecies were given him when ABE was a confirmed ED. My good brother, these are no sawkan or wagnerian (not to be confused with the highly talented Richard Wagner) prophecies. They are certainly NOT generic!

Oh, that website, interesting…didn’t know Christians are into fengshui these days. : )

Anonymous said...

I would ascribe "pathetic nonsense", first, to Chuck D. Pierce; and second, to Comrade Kenny.

There was never a biblical apostles that declared to his/her listeners a "victory over the SPIRIT OF POVERTY!" The whole article is too self-centered. It is all about how do we motivate ourselves to gain more riches and give it to the church as the only LEGITIMATE worship.

Mr. Pierce wrote "This is just not a money issue! God is looking for people who will shift in their stewardship so He can release a transference of wealth."

The above statement is the classic example of self-contradictory statement. The twisting of words doesn’t really got rid of the semantical element. Should try harder, Mr. Pierce.

Below are a few teachings from the Lord Christ, Himself:

1) Matt 6:19-21
The Lord never encourage us to store up treasures on earth.

2) Matt 6:24
"You can not serve both God and Money"

3) Matt 16:24-26
Christians were asked to DENY themselves, take up the cross, and follow Christ.

4) Matt 19:23-25
"I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God"

5) Matt 19:23-30
In this context, after Christ talked about the difficulty for rich man to enter heaven, his disciples asked,” We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?"

And their indication of "left everything" wasn’t mean that they gave their boats, houses and their other belongings to Jesus Christ and follow Him. They are in fact, left everything behind; they deny themselves of the comfort and riches that they enjoyed to carry their cross and follow Jesus.

How do i know for sure that the "left everything" must be understood as like forsaking their riches and not giving them to Jesus, is because in verse 29 Jesus said,"...everyone who has left...for my sake...", this was not recorded as " me..".

Basically, the context above can be understood that the disciples left everything behind for the sake of Christ; not left everything to Christ.

This demonstrated a huge significance difference between the teaching of Christ and Mr. Pierce.

Compare to the teaching of Christ, Mr. Pierce said,” Giving is not bringing a “check or dollar to the church.” Rather, giving is built around a covenant relationship linked around an altar of worship. Giving is when you recognize “MY KING is RIGHTEOUS and LEGITIMATE.” I bless Him so He will take His stand righteously on my behalf. Giving occurs when you worship! Giving occurs when you respond to authority with generosity and blessing. Giving occurs when you realize the lesser is blessed by the greater. He is the Greater King—we should want to give all to Him. Giving occurs when you do not hold back what you have been entrusted with by the Lord!"


ok, now it's your turn, Comrade Kenny. I am curious, do you really understand what did you meant when you wrote,” Generic prophecies aren't uncommon. Reason they seem generic is because they're about things that we can barely fathom. Sometimes God is vague when He speaks."?

First of all, if a prophecy is generic, then it is not a prophecy; rather it is a GUESS. Can you differentiate a guess from prophecy?

A guess is "to arrive at a correct conclusion about by conjecture, chance, or intuition".
That means, a guess is of no certainty and of mere self-thought idea. A guess might not happen. It has the possibility of not happening.

A prophecy is "the inspired declaration of divine will and purpose".
That means, a prophecy is certain and origin not from self but from God. A prophecy is a divine inspiration which WILL occur and has no possibility of not occurring.

Second; you reasoned that prophecies are generic because human can not fathom it. This statement is self-defeating. In the first place, when you claimed "human can not fathom it", you are fathoming the prophecy. You have to know what a prophecy is before you know whether can it be fathom or not.

Third, you blasphemed God's attributes. You said "sometimes God is vague when He speaks".

Deuteronomy 4:10
Remember the day you stood before the LORD your God at Horeb, when he said to me, "Assemble the people before me to hear my words so that they may learn to revere me as long as they live in the land and may teach them to their children."
As stated above, the purpose of God speaking to people so that people will learn to revere Him in return. And if God speak vaguely, we will have excuses to go against God during the judgment. When God speak, it is clear. His message is never vague. Whether or not the hearer wants to pay attention to the message is another thing. But when He speaks, He does it loud and clear. God is perfect therefore His word is perfect. You cannot have a perfect god creating imperfection because creating imperfections is itself not a perfection.

And “Christians are fools” have already deal with your (Comrade Kenny) last paragraph. So I shall leave it although I have something to comment on it.

Contra Gentiles

Catholic and Happy said...

I would like to commend comrade kenny for his great insight. Indeed you are proving to be among the flock in our Mother Church.

The Reformation is a great nuisance. It has wrought about such blasphemy as the priesthood of all believers and saved-by-grace and all sorts of nonsensical hermeneutics. Things like this is against the teachings of the Mother CHurch and therefore it cannot stand. I applaud comrade kenny and Bro. Chuck for hammering sense into the Protestants' head.

Indeed we teach that apostolic authority stands, as revealled in Bro. Peter Wagner's Apostolic Council. He is nearly right to establish this fact. The only part still missing is his commitment to the Holy Father of the CHurch, i.e. the Pope who himself is the successor of Peter, the chief of Apostles. Also see how Bro. Chuck is so authoritative to decree this and decree that. Such great apostolic anoiting. I only hope that these ppl will soon be grafted back into the true branch of the Mother Church.

And indeed as the council declare, let him be anathema who preached grace alone is sufficient...Grace alone? NO! far be it! God's love is not rape. Charity is an important partner to Grace. And what better way to manifest charity than to give. Indeed the more one give, the more one receive. this is the counsel of the Holy Bible! O' how low the reformers had stoop!

and from my observation, I am also glad to notice that Protestant are building grand churches. The Mother Church has always taught that the house of God ought to be grand and expensive. That is why we build large cathedrals. This was overturned by some overzealous reformers who preached about "Big Hall, Empty Church". Such is a great dishonor to our Religion! Therefore it is great to see protestant churches putting in effort and sacrifice to build big grand churches.

With ppl like comrade kenny, i would say that the Protestant cult is not without hope. Pope John Paul II of blessed memory dreamt of unity once again between the dissendents of the Mother CHurch. Perhaps the current Holy Father will achieve this oneness of the Lord's Body again with the support of great Apostolic representatives such as Bro. Wagner and Bro. Chuck.

With such great developement, one wonders WHAT THE HECK IS THE REFORMATION FOR? From here, it seemed so lame and waste of time. Long life the Mother Church!

Comrade Kenny said...

"(1) In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: (2) Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. (3) For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. (4) They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry." 2 Timothy 4:1-4

Alright Christians Are Fools and Contra Gentiles. I stand corrected. I should not have been too hasty to respond to the post, at least, not while I'm at work, eh?

While I'm far from adept at Scripture quoting, this piece of Scripture was something that came to mind when reading Contra Gentile's rebuke.

Because Contra Gentile has deemed it worthy to "(2) Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with WITHOUT great patience and careful instruction."

NOTE: The word 'without' was added in, in contrast to the Scripture verse above, in case you think I've blasphemed

I've modified the verse to illustrate a point about you Contra. I admire and respect your passionate love for the Lord, and your desire to correct others in times of need (or out of it), and probably uncompromising, from the level of passion that is evident. You were prepared to answer my rather misplaced thoughts systematically and coherently.

I cannot be sure, but it seems that you chose NOT to handle it tactfully, "with great patience and careful instruction". You chose to insult, rather than PATIENTLY rebuke me. Were I more emotive, I would've not received the little gems of wisdom you handed out.

I come from a country where freedom of thought is barely taught at our schools. Our teachers do nothing more than constantly repress free opinion, simply because they don't want to spend the extra time handling it. Opinion which I believe, is essential to learning. Continued expression of thoughts and opinions is met with anger and retribution.

For you , it may be hard to imagine how hard it is for many of us to break out of the mold, even with the benefit of higher education, but its a fact here. You repeat what many of our school teachers do in my country. Your misplaced emotions discourage constructive criticisms and thoughts. Think about it.

Look forward to a response... or a non-response.

Oh, Christians are Fools, appreciate your measured response. Anyways, thought you might like this site:

Maggot Punks

christians are fools! said...

comrade kenny;

Alas for the church these days, youngsters cannot stand harsh words, people who erred dare raise their heads against their teachers.

While i am not sure how much contra Gentiles understand your culture, I am pretty sure you are not one of those so constricted by the upbringing in your country (which is also mine) by the way you present your case.

Let's look beyond the words and receive with humility and a teachable heart the lesson that others have to offer. The church needs today more of Jonathan Edwards and John Sung who preached an Angry God, rather than a Chuck who preach a Millionaire of a God. Many times, God cannot use a soft preacher. (Not i say one okie, in case u wanna tembak me...Rev. Stephen Tong say one)The elects ought to bleed at the sight of these workers and conjurers of tricks who use the pulpit of the Lord to speak nonsense. If young intelligent ppl like you cannot think critically enough to reject such acts of, if i may say, blasphemy, for their want of respect to the true Gospel, how else can the other lesser brethrens be safe from their assault. Oh, the very elects are going to be deceived by false teachers, so be on your guard my friend, be ON YOUR GUARD against false PROPHETS, not Christians who are angered at the way the Temple of God is profaned. Let us lament together, My Father's House, they turned into robbers' den! And let the people of God wipe out these profaners and their wicked oblations with the whip of the gospel of truth.

Semper Reformanda!

Anonymous said...

2 Timothy 4:1-4
In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

Comrade Kenny,

You misunderstood the whole context of 2 Timothy 4:1-4.

The “great patience” is never meant to be “Softly spoken” or “gentle instruction”.

A rebuke is defined as “Sharp criticism”. When it is sharp, it goes into the heart. Apostle Paul recognized this. He could use “gently instruct” like the one in 2 Tim 2:25. But he didn’t. To Paul, each time he use “rebuke” it means a serious scolding or correction. This is proven in Titus 1:13-“Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith”.

Secondly, “great patience” as understands in the context of the epistles; Timothy was urged to preach the word at all time (in season and out of season), at all cost (great patience). As understand in the context, which supported by verse 5; we can conclude that the word “great patience” is of the encouragement given by Paul to Timothy to endure all kind of trials and difficulties.

It is clearer if we examine how did Paul expressed “patient” in his other epistles:

1)Ephesians 4:2
Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.

2)1 Thessalonians 5:14
And we urge you, brothers, warn those who are idle, encourage the timid, help the weak, be patient with everyone.

3) 2 Corinthians 1:6
If we are distressed, it is for your comfort and salvation; if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which produces in you patient endurance of the same sufferings we suffer.

4) Romans 12:12
Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer.

If you noticed, the similarity of the function of “patient” in the verses above, are all ascribed to trials, sufferings, and affliction.

Therefore, it is obvious the meaning of “great patience” in 2 Tim 4:1-4 doesn’t mean for us to withhold or suppress our work of correcting, rebuking and encouraging in any degree. It definitely doesn’t mean, “PATIENTLY rebuke”, as you has suggested. If it mean to be something soft, then Apostles Paul would have wrote in the same manner as he did on 2 Tim 2:25-“Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth…”. Therefore it is rather clear that “great patience” in this context doesn’t suggest any toning down of the word “rebuke”.

I did what i was suppose to do in the right manner.

You charged me,”Your misplaced emotions discourage constructive criticisms and thoughts. Think about it.”

Well, if it wasn’t of my comment that you wrote the above “constructive criticisms and thoughts”, I wonder how did you thought of it in the first place. It seems that your comment has defeated your own criticism *again.*

By the way, I received my primary and secondary education in Malaysia; in a government school.

Anyway, I can see that you are smart and passionate in your pursuit of Truth.

Contra Gentiles

Comrade Kenny said...

Bleh... I admit, the first post wasn't my proudest moment even as I posted it. Hardly considered constructive criticism, since I only spent a minute thinking about it. You are right to say that I should be more careful with my post.

Anyhoohow, while my first post is by no means constructive criticism, it's still an expressed opinion, to which I was originally expressing my concern about. Perhaps the right words that I should have used is 'discourse', instead or 'criticism'.

While I'm not so hot on using harsh words on people, I still believe in such a thing as righteous anger, so who am I to say anything eh? Jesus himself wasn't too soft on his disciples either, yet provided them with careful instruction.

Bleh... you have dealt much shame and wounded pride to me. *waves a fist in the air* You will pay for this Contra Gentiles!

Have a great week guys!

enn@j said...

ok ok looks like this 'war' have finally took a break

Thank you guys, for taking the time to post your views in upholding the truth in this humble blog of mine

Let's continue to spur and encourage one another. For those who teach, to have more grace and for those who lack (like me), to have more humility to learn =)


enn@j said...

btw guys,

perhaps i should intro u guys in person to one another one day when contra gentile is back in his homeland =)


christians are fools for Christ's sake - 1Co4:10 said...


I don't think this is a war. No one lose and the only winner is Christ. Yet there is a real war we are facing. Let us fight together, comrade!

We have become, and are still, like the scum of the world, the refuse of all things. - 1 Co 4:13